New Helmet Camera Video

Whiskey Two Four (WTFPB) Ghost Rig

A couple months back, I picked up a Tippmann TPX and was looking for a way to carry magazines and 12 gram Co2 cartridges. I don't even consider vests (too bulky and restricting for me), so my options were limited. It was either a harness, waist/belt or leg rigs.

I contacted Whiskey Two Four looking for a pack that would suit me. The Ghost Rig seemed like it would the bill. While WTF does offer a TPX version, I wanted to play around with a few different configurations, so I ordered the MOLLE version.

I contacted WTF a with a few questions and was met with polite and helpful responses. Overall, the customer service was top notch. I have said before, and will say again: In paintball, customer service can easily make or break a company. I am happy to say that WTF left nothing to be desired in the CS department. Keep up the good work!

The ordering process was very simple and with in a couple weeks, I had the Ghost Rig in my hands. I also ordered 50 round pod pouch considering I plan to use pursuit pistol pod or two.

All I can say is WOW! I am very impressed!

Due to the MOLLE system the Ghost Rig utilizes, many different pouches can be used. From 140 round pods and pistol magazines to 10 round tubes and 12 grams, the options are nearly endless.

The first unique feature of the Ghost Rig is the way it is adjusted. You can see that on the version in WTF's pictures (the rounded corners) utilizes paracord (also known as "550 cord") laced between the MOLLE strips to adjust to almost anyones size.

Not only is that great because you know it will fit, but you are also getting multiple packs in one. If you don't need the back portion for some unknown reason, you could (theoretically) take off the back portion and lace cord or some material between the remaining two portions for a very compact pack.

My pack, as seen by comparing pictures (link above to WTF's pictures), is different the one located on WTF's website. Mine a squared version. I am unsure why it is different, but either way it works the same and looks great to me.

Mine also adjusts with MALICE clips holding the three MOLLE portions together. There is no paracord. Though I could install some (I am fond of knot work and making things out of paracord, so it is on hand) to mimic the rig in WTF's pictures. You can not see the clips in the WTF pictures, but I can guess they hold the back piece on over the two belt halves. You can see the MALICE clips here:

Due to the way this adjusts, keep in mind that the bigger you are, the more MOLLE space you have available. There is a total of 5x3 MOLLE slots on each of the belt halves, but due to my size I can only utilize 1 column. This is not an issue for me as the 3 rows of 12 slots on the back piece are more than enough room for what I carry at the moment. Basically, if you need more space, go eat some more fast food!

The belt itself is also different from others I have used. Most paintball packs I see use a similar system of 4 elastic/velcro straps that overlap to make a tight and great fit. At first glance, the Ghost Rig appears to use the same system. Wrong.

You can see in the picture above that there are 4 strips of elastic just like many other packs. Each is 4" wide and can be easily stretched to fit (once you have adjusted the MOLLE/paracord obviously).
The difference is that the elastic strips are sewn together (in pairs) to create a one overlap. Many packs are similar (Nxe, Dye, Empire), but overlap 3 times versus the 1 time here.
I can't say this system is better, because both work extremely well, though the WTF is slightly faster.

Comfort:
I have 3 packs right now, but can not compare to one (the PBMafia Joyride) considering it is not padded and would not be a fair comparison. Comfort is on par, if not better than my NXe 3+2+2.
The back support is great, and the padding is awesome. Unlike the NXe, this padding is much more plush feeling, but still extremely sturdy. Though softer, it gives great back support and more overall comfort.
Only time will tell if this padding will hold up as well. So far, I don't have a reason to doubt it will. You can see the differences in the photos below.
While both work well, if I had to choose, I would take the WTF padding over the NXe.

The personal touch was awesome. Check out the tag:

You may have noticed that I like to buy things that are made in the USA and this is no exception As it says on the tag: "Made with pride in the USA."

Overall this is a very well thought out design. The craftsmanship is obvious in the final product. I can't wait to get back out onto the field with this. I am considering getting rid of my other packs to use this exclusively. Why own 3 when I can just interchange pouches on one?

I haven't found a downside to the Ghost rig yet. The price may be a little steep compared to some other products, but I will definitely pay a little more to get the customer support of Whiskey Two Four and the confidence that I am buying one of the highest quality packs out there. Oh and if you didn't catch it above, I will always pay a bit more for something that is MADE IN THE USA!

PBMafia/McCann USA Joyride Stock Class Pack

Recently I have had the joy of trying out a few different paintball packs.

-NXe Elevation 3+2+2 (2008 Alex Fraige Limited Edition)
-PBMafia/McCann USA Joyride
-Whiskey Two Four  Ghost harness

These are each used for different things in paintball. I use the NXe Elevation as my "semi" pack considering how much paint it holds. The PBMafia Joyride is my primary stock class pack. The Whiskey Two Four Ghost harness is more versatile than either considering it utilizes the MOLLE pouch retention system.

The PBMafia Joyride harness is a well known stock class pack. It holds up to fifteen ten round tubes and four twelve grams. The tubes can be carried cap less or with caps depending on what you prefer. I prefer cap less.

I have been using this pack for a few months so far and have been impressed. McCann has treated me well. I have contacted them multiple times with questions about their products and had quick answers as well as overall excellent customer service. Paintball is an industry where customer service can make or break a company and McCann USA (PBMafia) is doing it right.

Size:
When in doubt, measure yourself and contact PBMafia. I have around a 30" waist. There was no issue with sizing for me. PBMafia states: "With the pack laid out flat the belt piece is 45" long. If you need a larger one, just let us know and we'll make it for free."


They will accommodate you, just take that moment and shoot them an E-mail or call.

Comfort and Overall "Fit:"

This pack is relatively comfortable. The strap that runs around the waist is secured by velcro as are most other packs. The piece of material that secures the pack around the waist is not elastic, but is connected to the backside of the pack by a 3" - 4" piece of elastic. The left and right side of the pack is two "tabs" of elastic material with velcro to make sure the pack is tight enough. Unlike the NXe pack, these tabs don't overlap, they come together in the center. Also, the "belt" portion is only 4" - 5" tall verses the larger NXe and WTF belts.

The back of this pack (where you place the 10 round tubes) is relatively thin. I am confident the material will not rip or tear, but due to how thin it is compared to similar (albeit higher priced) options, there is little back support.

Overall the pack fits great, though I can't say it is as comfortable as the NXe because of the back support and wider "belt" portion.

The pack stays secure around your waist, even when running, diving and crawling through brush. It also does not hinder movement at all.

Tubes and Twelve Grams:

As stated earlier, this pack can hold a maximum of 15 tubes (150 paintballs) and 4 twelve grams. The 12 gram loops are located on the left side of the pack but can be easily swapped to the other side by simply sliding it off one side of the belt and onto the other side. The twelve grams are held in by a piece of elastic like many other SC harnesses. After using the Joyride for a few days of play and not losing a single twelve gram, I have confidence in it.

The ten round tubes can be placed in the pack cap down if you plan to use caps at all. When facing upwards, the tube slides through a piece of elastic into a (about 2") piece of material allowing you to go cap less if you choose to. Just like the 12 grams, I have yet to lose a tube and am confident using these loops to hold my paint.

Durability and Stitching:

As you can see from the pictures, I ordered the Gray/Black version. After using it for multiple days of play, and washing it (hand wash) lightly after each day, it still looks brand new. The elastic loops for the 10 round tubes and 12 grams have not stretched out enough to allow tubes to fall out, but it has become easier to get tubes in.

The velcro is still working perfect and holds great. I have found that with some types of velcro, thread and debris seems to get caught in it and near impossible to get out. So far it has stayed clean and looks brand new.

None of the stitches have pulled loose and the pack has held up to everything thrown at it so far, while showing no signs of wear.

Overall, this is a great harness. I do enjoy a slightly wider belt and more back support, but it would most likely jack the price up. For the price, you could not do better in my opinion. I have been impressed so far and hopefully will continue to be.

Oh and I almost forgot to mention one of the best things about it: MADE IN USA!

The different options and other PBMafia items can be found here.

Disclaimer: The pack needed to be cleaned slightly in the pics, those are not stains.

First Time Out With The GoPro HD

This is my first helmet cam video, taken with a GoPro HD. Taken at Danger Zone Paintball in Pensacola, Florida. The music used is Five Finger Death Punch (Bad Company). More videos to come!

RTR Gargoyle; what makes it tick.

The Gargoyle Trigger. This is the first time I completely broke down the gun, so bear with me. 

I was rather impressed to see a delrin insert (seen in picture.

"Exploded view"

EDIT: RTR just had to point out that the Rail, feedtube and barrel adapter are backwards. It happens lol.

Remember The Ronin (RTR) Barrel Bags

Are all barrel bags equal?
No.

Are there other options that are just as good? Probably somewhere.

RTR offers a quality bag that won't fall apart, looks great and is more useful then that normal barrel bag/plug. It is reinforced at the tip (as seen in below picture) and has a velcro flap which allows it to become two bags in one.

We have all had that "damn it" moment where we shoot a ball into the bag. Then you have to switch to another or try to clean it out.. Either way, when your trying to get into the next game, its a pain I don't want to deal with.

At $6.00 ($5.00 if 3+) they are cheaper than some of the competition and most likely superior to what you are using.

I ordered mine as raffle tickets (each ticket was $10.00) and ended up getting 10 barrel bags and a second RTR Gargoyle for my cousin. It doesn't get any better than that.

It won't make a huge difference most likely, but they are handy to have around for those "special moments" you prematurely.... fire your.. gun. ;]

Bombswab Review

This review is for the barrel swabs that are sold Here.

Top: New BombSwab
Bottom: Used BombSwab

A swab is a very simple and critical piece of gear. It is easy to forget about or overlook until you need it. In the past I have owned a couple different barrel swabs. Namely a few by Redz and DYE.
After a few game days, these swabs would always fall apart and I would be walking to the proshop to buy the same old swab I knew wouldn't last long. The material used ("swab" portion) would clean the barrel fine, but quickly deteriorate over the course of a few days of play. It would become very compressed and wouldn't do a great job cleaning barrel breaks anymore. Also, the rubber piece in the center would crack or be pulled apart easily. The latter was the bigger issue of the two.

Center of a BombSwab

Features:
-100% Customizable, from the letters/logo on the label to the swab and connector. You can even choose    what font for your custom label.
-100% lambswool. Proven to be durable and work well in my experience.
- Made in U.S.A.

I happened across a thread on PBNation a couple years ago claiming how much better the product was. I thought to myself "its just another swab, but I'll give it a shot." I ordered a "3 Swab Player Pack." Very simple to order, just customize the way you want and go from there.

I couldn't be happier with the products I bought. It has stood the test of time and has not failed me in the ways that other manufacturers products have. The connector piece (rubber piece in center) has not cracked or given way at all. The glue that holds it all together has not allowed it to come apart at all.

I would highly recommend them to anyone, the couple dollars more you pay for a BombSwab will easily go farther than another that you have to buy every few games.

I know it is a small piece of gear, but these are far superior to anything I have tried. I am impressed, and if I need another swab, Bombswabs.com will be the first place I go.

Customizable Label

Oh and one last thing that makes these worth those extra couple dollars (if you missed it the first time): MADE IN USA!

JT Proflex Paintball Mask Review

An important note on buying a new paintball mask:

A paintball mask is not just another piece of equipment in your gear bag. Not only does it protect your eyes and ears and face, it can be the deciding factor in enjoying a day of paintball. Before you buy a paintball mask, TRY IT ON. This is the best advice one can give when you are shopping for a new mask. A mask will fit everyone differently, I may like a mask that you hate, but that does not make it a "bad" mask. A paintball mask is personal preference, get out to your local Pro-shop or paintball store and try it on before you buy.

Some background information: 

I have used many different masks. Everything from the lower end Scott and Tippmann Masks that came with my first 98 Custom to the Empire E-Vents, V-Force Grill and Dye I4's with almost everything in between. 

I have been using the JT Proflex almost exclusively for the past couple years (since I first tried them on).

How does it look and "making it yours?"

This is all opinion, what do you think? The Proflex has more options to make it look different or more the way you want than any other mask I can think of. Every part is interchangeable with a different color or option. 
Below is one of my Flex's; Chrome lens, pink bottoms, blue frame, blue and pink checkered KM strap, Black soft ears:

Field of Vision and Fog?
As with the other high end masks, the field of vision is excellent and rivals its competition. I have also never had an issue with fog. I have used the above mask in Massachusetts for almost 2 years, as well as a hot summer day of play in Florida and not one fog issue. 


Weight and Overall Comfort:
This is a very light mask. For comparison, it is lighter than the E-Vents I used to use. This is the most comfortable mask I have ever used in paintball. I don't have any complaints here. The foam on the lens frame has held great over the course of my use, and shows no sign of wear yet. The picture below is the frame (upside down) showing the foam has yet to show any issues.

Ventilation and Sound:

Ventilation could only be better if the face protection wasn't there. You can see just by looking at it how well it vents. Row after row of holes all around the mouth (and whole bottom for that matter) allows the air to dissipate quickly in all conditions, even heavy breathing. 

Also, when yelling to others on the field, there is no "echo" as with some other masks. The only way it could be improved would be to have nothing in front of your mouth (and we could all guess how that would end up). 

The Proflex utilizes "soft ears" meaning instead of hard plastic covering your ears (grill, vents etc) you have a piece of foam attached to the mask and held in place by the strap. These are pictured below.

These soft ears allow you to hear excellent. This means a lot to me, as my hearing isn't too great in the first place. Some companies also offer soft ears with designs or in different colors.

Lens Changing:

Changing the lens. This is the downfall of the Proflex for many people. Think about it, between games you don't want to be wasting those few minutes struggling with a lens. V-Force, DYE, Empire and others have a far faster system for changing the lens quickly. If you are looking to get a Flex, you have to face the fact you won't be changing your lens in 10 seconds any time soon.

To some, this is the make or break feature. To me, its no big deal. I don't mind taking a minute or two to change my lens. The first few times, it will be mildly difficult. After that, it tends to get easier, because you now understand how to do it better, and the part has gotten a bit "softer" around the clips, allowing you to do it faster.

The Proflex uses little clips around the lens to attach to the frame. You insert these "clips" into holes in the frame to lock it into place. It is a very secure system and the lens will not come loose.

You can see in the pictures the "clips," in the picture above you can see "clips" on the underside (2 near the nose area, two near where your cheeks contact the foam).

Coverage and Safety:

The Proflex provides excellent coverage for everyone I know who has tried it on. Unlike some others (I4...) you don't need a small head to wear it. You will have to get used to a couple features though if you are coming from another mask.

For one, the soft ears. They are.. soft. I know who would have thought, right? This means when you get hit in that soft ear, you will feel it a bit more than the hard ears or the thicker soft ears on others (in my experience, DYE uses thicker ears). 

The second is the mask bottoms:

The whole  black part you see is much softer than most other masks. Yes, this promotes bounces. But once in a while you will get a hit farther down on that piece and it will flex a bit much and you feel it more than you want to.

As you can also see in the pic, the Proflex comes with a non-removable (without modification) chinstrap. I know most people prefer just to cut this off or drill out the rivet, but I like it there. I had a nasty incident with barbed wire on a renegade/outlaw field that pulled my mask off, and since then... you get the point.

What does it come with?

If you choose to buy a Flex brand new, you will receive the mask with a clear lens. You will also receive a visor (not pictured, I prefer to run without one) and a drawstring bag to keep the mask from getting dirt/dust on it or the lens from being scratched. The bag I received was not the same material as the Empire ones though (which was microfiber, excellent for cleaning paint off your mask).

Overall Quality:

Again, not a bad thing to say after all my use of it.

Other Information:

Like I said above, everything on this mask can be customized the way you like it. This is one of my masks and I am about to build another. I prefer KM straps based upon quality and what is in this image:

At the moment, I can't see myself switching to a different mask as long as parts are still being made for the Flex and I can get a new lens once in a while.

Below are a couple pictures of me "in action" with the Flex (a cooler way to say "I am wearing it"):

Center in the multicam. This is one of my other Flex's (black with a rose lens)

Eclipse Distortion Pants Review

Coming soon.

Special Ops SC Forearm Guard Review

This Review is by "maniac3641." As always if you have questions or comments etc, feel free to comment below.

When I first started playing stock class, I would run around the field with 10 round tubes and 12 grams in my pockets. Predictably, it caused quite a bit of ruckus and wasn’t comfortable.  Often times I would reach for a tube and find my paintballs had spilled and burst.  As I got more serious about stock class, I looked into different harnesses and found two products I was very interested in.

The Review: 

These Forearm guards are custom made from Special Ops. As expected, custom products take more time to make and ship. but it is well worth the wait. 

Special Ops states: “Most orders will ship within a week or 2 but we guarantee that all orders will be shipped within 30 days from order placement. 3 day and 7 day RUSH options are available.” 

Features & Specifications:

• Great for carrying 12 gram CO2 cartridges or 10 rd tubes. Also can hold tubes of Tiberious “First Strike” rounds.
• Padded and comfortable.
• Lightweight
• Available in 5 different camouflages: ACU Digi, Coyote, Crye Multicam, MarPat, and Woodland. 
• Made in the USA by a great company with great customer service.
• 18 slots, 6 slots on each strip to fit up to 18 12 grams, or six 10 rd tubes and six 12 grams.
• 3 Elastic bands secure the forearm guards to your arm (These are meant to be worn over clothing or even pads, so it will a little loose on your bare arm).
• It has also has slight padding to protect your arm from paintball impacts. (Not meant to bear the brunt of a dive/slide, this would put all your 12 grams and 10 round tubes in the dirt anyway).
• The guard also extends and tapers, configuring to cover your hand up to the base of the fingers, adding sting protection on hands.

  I have owned other wrist and forearm carriers and was not impressed.  First off, I like how the SpecOps guards look, and they fit into the rest of my gear nicely. They carry what I need onto the field dependably. Depending on what you have loaded onto them, you will barely notice the weight on your arm. It is very secure and distributes the weight evenly. 

As long as you have some layers on your arm (one or two shirts etc), they stay right where they are supposed to. I ordered them in Crye Multicam, which matches the rest of my gear. Many companies have yet to offer genuine Crye Multicam, so this was excellent. I find these are a fantastic product at a great price.

Cons:

   As stated above, the forearm guards are a superior product compared to what I have used before. However, carrying a load on your forearms and getting it to conform and really stay put on your arm is really quite difficult. As such, they has a few general cons to be addressed.

The biggest con (could be a pro as well) is having to wear a layer or two under this forearm guard, or allowing for the larger forearms. I have “average” size forearms. As a result, if I was to wear these with no sleeves, it would be too loose to bother with. My solution is simply to wear arm pads underneath. 

The only other problem is that while carrying the heaviest load possible (18 12-grams), they tend to shift and move while running. But again, that is a natural con to these products and can’t really be helped too much. 

My last small con is that it was advertised with a loop to go around your finger to secure it. The product I received didn’t have that. To me, it is no big deal, and if more of a personal preference than a defect. Since I  wear this with armpads (that secure the same way) I don’t use it anyways, so it wasn’t a big deal to me.

*Note: I did not contact the company to get this remedied as I like it better this way. If I did, I’m sure they would correct it with no problem.

In conclusion, this is a great product that I would definitely recommend to stock class players. I have always been a fan of Special Ops work, and they continue to produce quality and innovative products at good prices. 

Rating: 4.8/5.0

If you are interested in them, check out this link:

http://shop.specialopspaintball.com/index.php/special-ops-stock-class-forearm-guard.html

Note by Justin: Before ordering, you may want to contact Special Ops about them. Considering they are custom made, chances are, you can order them to fit a better if you don’t want to wear pads underneath. For him, it works fine. If you don’t want to, this may be a better option.

BT Apex Barrel Review

Background information:
This review is of the first generation Apex barrel. There is a newer generation that has been aesthetically improved and advertises the same abilities: Click here for link to Apex2.


I received this barrel with an A-5 I bought from another player via the Special Ops Forums. I used the Apex for a period of about 6 months (alternating with a few other barrels). 


The Apex barrel is meant to give you an advantage over another player. It allows you to "curve" the paintball around a tree, over a bunker or other obstacle. 


This advantage is nice to have, but it is not something you can just think to your paintball "curve over there" and it will happen. The user needs to manually spin the apex tip as well as adjust the angle of the rubberized ramp located in the end of the barrel (using a tab located on the Apex).


I found this barrel a blast for "plinking" at targets in the yard. Though in practical applications (aka a game) it was more of a hinderance to keep adjusting. It is very hard to get the right combination of backspin/distance to curve balls around a bunker, but it did do as advertised.


The only competition for this product is the Tippmann Flatline barrel, which pales in comparison. It is pickier on paint, can not be "shut off," It also can't do any of the other features of the Apex or Apex2 (removable tip etc). 


The Apex Tip can also be adapted to other barrel tips using something commonly known as the "tape mod" or an adapter. 




Pro's:
-"Flatline" or "backspin" effect can be shut off
- tip can be removed and put on a better barrel with an adapter
- allows you to shoot farther
- Works best during scenarios where you can hit masses that can't reach out to you

Con's:
- The "curving around a bunker" effect is not as great as it seems, and is almost pointless (in my opinion), although, when set for distance, it works fine.
- Not tourny legal
-Added distance, but more bounces at this distance.
-The stock barrel for an Apex tip is almost identical to the A-5 stock barrel, same porting and length. It leaves much to be desired. (


Recommendation:
If your are set on improving the distance of your paintball gun, and are thinking about purchasing a Flatline or Apex/Apex2 barrel, I have to recommend the Apex. It is a cheaper and (in my opinion) better product. I would rather not use one at all and just have a decent barrel bore/paintball match, but if you are set on it this review will hopefully help you choose between.

V-Force Grill Review

Background Info:
The only mask I had used before I bought a set of V-Force Grillz was the stock Tippmann/Scott mask that comes in the "Tippmann 98C Power Pack." I had decided that that mask just didn't cut it, and I needed something that performed much better. I did some research, and decided to buy the V-Force Grill.

Looks:
Some people say you look like a "bug" or an alien of some sort when you put it on, but most love the aggressive styling of the Grillz. A lot of the newer, higher end masks are starting to have a more "agressive" style to them. I used Reverse Green/Black Grillz (Pretty much Olive Drab/Black) with an amber lens. I must say it looked good. 

Comfort:
The Grill beat out that old Tippmann/Scott mask in every area by far. Comfort was a massive step up, as was everything else. Although I prefer my Proflex over anything right now, who knows what I will try next. Every high end mask I have used has been comfortable, this is really a matter of personal preference.

Field Of Vision/Lens:
The Grill offers a good field of vision. Not the best, but still an excellent field of vision (exactly how it should be with a nice mask). Something everyone must know about all V-Force masks, and (in my opinion) a large downside is that V-Force masks are not equipped with true thermal lenses. They are coated instead. I found this coating wore off after a couple months of use and had to be replaced to avoid a good deal of fogging issues.

Ventilation: 
The V-Force Grill has good ventilation. I wouldn't give it "five stars" in this category, simply because I know there is better. When breathing hard in this mask, it was easy for me to tell that ventilation could have been better.

Lens Changing/Maintenance:
Extremely easy to change the lens. The E-Vents are just as easy, but you don't do it in the same way. The removable foam is also an excellent idea, and allows you to quickly change out sweaty foam between games or replace old foam if you choose to.


Protection/Coverage:Many of the newer masks are getting smaller and smaller. The Grill is an excellent choice for many people because it is not made for only people with tiny heads (*cough* I4). It gave me enough protection to be more than satisfied (as well as any friends who used it).


Sound/Hearing:
Sound and hearing are something I have been hearing more about these days when considering a mask. I found that while wearing the grill I could hear my teammates just fine and they could hear me. I have only heard of being impaired with a couple masks, and haven't experienced it myself.


 Final Recommendation:
I definitely recommend this mask. It is an excellent choice, and you definitely get your moneys worth. Though I was happy to switch to E-Vents, and even happier to switch to a set of Proflex's. As always, if you are planning to buy a high end mask, try some out at your local pro shop first. What works for me may not be your best choice.




As usual with my reviews, if there is anything I could add or you have comments or additions, feel free to post up.


EDIT (22OCT2011): VForce has released a dual pane lens for the Grill. I haven't had a chance to try one but now this mask can really compete with the others I have reviewed.

AGD SuperKnife Review

I bought this from the user "BenoitOWN" on MCB. It is basically a private label "SuperKnife." It is the exact same as the company product except that it has the AGD engraving on it.

There isn't much to say as it is simply a utility knife. I have already found it handy in many situations. I usually carry either this, a Kershaw Leek, or my Leatherman around daily, or a mix. I use it mainly when I know I will mess up a normal blade. It is far easier just to pop a new razor into this than ruin a good edge and/or replace the latter.

The only product I can compare to is a Husky knife I used to carry around. It was the same concept, but the locking mechanism wasn't as "smooth" as this, and it was awkward to hold; as well as slightly more bulky.

Definitely a knife I look forward to keeping around for a long time.